Unknown Speaker 0:00
You're wasting your time living in your comfortable bubble that is actually creating more suffering than pleasure. But you're so used to suffering that you, you, you, you almost get accustomed to suffering to such a degree that you that you become blind to it. I think that's like a very toxic thing in our society, because most of us don't even
Unknown Speaker 0:28
most of us don't even follow our dreams anymore. Welcome to another episode of what it's like to be you. I'm Josh Levine, your host, and on this show, I interview accurately typed guests about their experience as their Enneagram type Today, my guest is Bjarne, or Bjarne from Germany, and Bjarne is officially typed by Enneagram as social self, Pres eight, wing nine, with three and six. Fixes, specifically three, wing two and six, wing seven. But Bjarne is potentially thinking that he's a six. So we approach this interview as if he's an eight, just acknowledging that he's in a process of questioning. But we covered a lot of good core social self press, eight themes in this episode. For example, bjorns precocious awareness of power structures and exploitation and corruption, and his very early desire to be a force that can combat that, including early political aspirations and an awareness of kind of governance structures and the collective social self pres holding environment. And we also talk about Bjorn boundless reserves of energy and his motivation, which is massive, and how, especially with eight and three fixes together that combine, especially for moving two combines into a certain wanting to help people by helping them galvanize and get in touch with their own power and capacity, and a certain inherent in touchness with that in himself that he abides in. Finally, a couple other things around the importance of feeling autonomy and having freedom from being enslaved by the social culture and other things like that, as well as betrayal and the emotional impact on that. So lots of good eight stuff in this episode. And if you would like to learn more about eight or the Enneagram in general, then I recommend you go check out the Enneagram school.com and you can go look at our intro course, which is where you can go to learn just everything you know about the Enneagram? What makes the Enneagram the Enneagram? So go check out the Enneagram school.com, and without further ado, here is Bjarne so I kind of want to just start by asking you, How are you feeling right this moment?
Unknown Speaker 2:34
I am feeling quite exhausted from my day at work. Yeah, it was like a new environment. Was something to get used to, lots of new impressions. And other than that, I feel a bit tense in my body. And I,
Unknown Speaker 2:54
yeah, I could actually.
Unknown Speaker 2:57
I also feel excited for this interview.
Unknown Speaker 3:02
But I also feel some pressure, because I know there's going to be a lot of people watching this, also many people whom I know, who I know.
Unknown Speaker 3:14
Yeah, right, right.
Unknown Speaker 3:19
When you are excited about something. How does that manifest for you because, and actually the reason I ask that is because
Unknown Speaker 3:29
you are stating that you're you're excited. But what I'm seeing from my side is the same level of, I don't know, stillness, that I have, that I normally experience with
Unknown Speaker 3:43
you. I guess there is, like, a big discrepancy between what I present and what I feel for some reason, yeah, like, I'm not, I'm not like,
Unknown Speaker 3:53
unless I'm like, very like, I don't even know how to say it, but like,
Unknown Speaker 4:00
it's, I can be a little inexpressive, I guess. I guess there's like a wall between me and my emotions, and it takes a lot for the emotions to show my external
Unknown Speaker 4:13
expressions and like, mannerisms and behavior.
Unknown Speaker 4:18
Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 4:20
when you say wall between you and your emotions, that's something that you've said before, actually in our conversations. But is that experientially for yourself, like it's hard for you to access your emotions, or just in terms of the wall between what you're feeling and what gets expressed to externally,
Unknown Speaker 4:36
I would say that I am actually quite in touch with my emotions if I want to be and if I decide to be,
Unknown Speaker 4:46
but I usually decide not to be, and I you, I'm usually quite dissociated from them as a result of that. Yeah. Okay, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 4:55
That's a really interesting choice of word, decide. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 5:00
To decide to what does it mean to decide to be or not to be in touch with your emotions, and how conscious is that choice? So
Unknown Speaker 5:10
think usually it's not very conscious. I'm like most of the time. Whenever I feel something negative pop up in my mind, I I'm just like, I don't care. I don't care. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. I don't need it like, I don't need this to feel this emotion right now, I sort of just ignore it.
Unknown Speaker 5:32
But when I want to feel an emotion then,
Unknown Speaker 5:39
then I usually actually can. It's just,
Unknown Speaker 5:44
I suppose,
Unknown Speaker 5:47
I suppose
Unknown Speaker 5:52
I lack a little bit of consistency in that regard,
Unknown Speaker 5:58
because I tend to
Unknown Speaker 6:02
repress negative emotions to such a degree that
Unknown Speaker 6:08
it sort of feels like there is this negative under me that I don't express and I keep every I'm trying to keep everything positive,
Unknown Speaker 6:20
but I cannot keep everything positive if I don't, if I don't let the negative in either. You know what I mean? Yes, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 6:30
So hearing some potentially nine link stuff there, I know you're also in a state of potentially questioning your own type, but your official typing eight, wing, nine, yeah. And
Unknown Speaker 6:40
also, there's some body center stuff in what you're saying, like wanting to stay consistent,
Unknown Speaker 6:46
you know, in a certain kind of feeling states, or, you know, however, whatever, yeah, whatever you might say there. And as we're wading into this territory of your own relationship with your emotional life, yes, this idea of that you can exert your will to decide how in touch or not in touch you are with your emotional life, and the certain
Unknown Speaker 7:11
a desire to consciously control or modulate the intensity of your inner experience and to keep it within a certain amplitude. And so there's, you know, I'm definitely hearing some nine stuff there, but also there's this, like, eight assertive will willfulness around the like,
Unknown Speaker 7:30
almost like the confidence that you can control it, you know, that you can just,
Unknown Speaker 7:36
let's see, suppress or cut off or decide not to pay attention or ignore An inner experience that you're having, and then successfully do that. Yes, absolutely. Like, if it's not useful to me, I'm just going to cut it off most of the time. And I very much see it through the lens of, like, what can I actually achieve with this emotion? Like, is this useful to me? Can I make use of it?
Unknown Speaker 8:03
Does it suit the Does it suit the situation that I'm in, you know? And if it does not, then I'm like, goodbye.
Unknown Speaker 8:15
And then, so then what happens? What do you what are you left feeling when you say goodbye?
Unknown Speaker 8:22
I guess the emotion is sort of still there, but I but it's like slumbering. It's like it's not actively in my conscious most of the time, and I just feel this restlessness.
Unknown Speaker 8:41
Yeah, yeah. But then are you able to meet the situation with whatever the situation needs? In quotes,
Unknown Speaker 8:49
I can meet the situation with whatever it needs, but I cannot meet whatever I might need. You know, like, right, right.
Unknown Speaker 8:58
It's like I'm killing a part of myself to
Unknown Speaker 9:04
to adapt to a situation,
Unknown Speaker 9:07
yeah, that's okay already. Like some really evocative eight language here, like killing a part of yourself, or the image that came to me was sort of putting in a box, just putting it in a box, or compartmentalizing it away from my conscious experience, not even necessarily to deal with it later, but just it's just like a willingness to sever this piece of me for this moment so that I can show up. I don't know what. What's the what? So that I can show up? Can you finish that sentence,
Unknown Speaker 9:42
so I can show up for my family, so I can show up to work, so I can show up professionally, and yeah, so I can basically take care of my environment, yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess Yeah. I'm hearing eight three. They're a little bit.
Unknown Speaker 10:00
In terms of the the way that you're
Unknown Speaker 10:03
aware of what's required to be effective in a situation and to calibrate to your like, social context. Also, maybe there's some social instinct there as well, like, yes, whatever is required for me to be in the situation with my family or at work or whatever. So,
Unknown Speaker 10:19
yeah, yeah. I mean, I guess it would be three, wing two, specifically, yeah, I never denied was in my tri fix.
Unknown Speaker 10:28
And I think I have this desire to be
Unknown Speaker 10:33
seen as a good person and as a cooperative person, but at the same time, I'm like, so shut off from everything negative inside of me and every like vulnerable part of me that I cannot like,
Unknown Speaker 10:50
authentically communicate with other people unless I'm like,
Unknown Speaker 10:56
unless I'm Like,
Unknown Speaker 10:59
unless a boundary of mine has been crossed, or if I
Unknown Speaker 11:06
am very like willfully tapping into that sphere. But most of the time, I cannot allow myself to do that
Unknown Speaker 11:16
because,
Unknown Speaker 11:20
because, if I were to allow myself to do that, then other people could take advantage of me, and
Unknown Speaker 11:29
I would feel pathetic, and I would feel like I betrayed myself,
Unknown Speaker 11:37
and that is like
Unknown Speaker 11:40
the worst thing that could happen to me,
Unknown Speaker 11:43
actually the worst thing, yes,
Unknown Speaker 11:46
yeah, that you betray yourself. Yes, yeah. And I don't know
Unknown Speaker 11:54
if this is too abstract of a question, but the the self that you're betraying is what like a felt, sense resonance of
Unknown Speaker 12:04
what you who you are in that moment, or what are you? Yeah, what is the self that you're betraying?
Unknown Speaker 12:11
The self that I'm betraying is, like, very basic almost, but it's like, it's like this, I'm somebody who other people will not take advantage of I'm somebody whose will will not be questioned, somebody who, um,
Unknown Speaker 12:30
somebody who will not be remembered as somebody that got taken advantage of by other people. Like, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to look pathetic.
Unknown Speaker 12:43
Basically, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 12:49
it's, I mean, it's really evocative the language you're using, and it's very core eight, at least in my experience. And again, I know you're questioning your type, but do what is? What are you questioning your type as? What do you think you might be? I believe I'm a six, actually. Okay, okay, yeah, 6.7 to be precise. Okay,
Unknown Speaker 13:11
that's so funny,
Unknown Speaker 13:13
because, no, that's often the other way around. You know that if you're a course six, you think you're an eight, but what's, what is your theory? Why do you think you're six? I think I'm a six because I'm, like, very tense. I'm I'm always tense, like, my emotions are very much, like, controlled by anxiety. Like, anxiety is, like, in charge, very much in charge. And that is not something that I would associate with eight. It's much more like something I would associate with a head type, uh huh. What are you anxious about?
Unknown Speaker 13:50
So what am I anxious about? I'm anxious of being taken advantage of. I'm anxious about
Unknown Speaker 13:58
what else am I being what else am I anxious of?
Unknown Speaker 14:03
Yeah? Basically just being taken advantage of Yeah. That's, that's quite literally, it,
Unknown Speaker 14:10
what, what um?
Unknown Speaker 14:13
What? What comes to mind as like scenarios of being taken advantage of, what? What what does it mean to be taken advantage
Unknown Speaker 14:24
of? So being taken advantage of is basically other people making fun of you, or other people using you for pleasure, against you or against your role. But like using you for pleasure at all, that's already like a no go for me. Um, it's just something that I cannot comprehend, being used or being objectified. I'm not somebody else's object basically, I'm a person, and I'm a person who has dignity, and this dignity won't be taken away from me because someone else wants to take it. Yeah, it's, it's making.
Unknown Speaker 15:00
Me think of this.
Unknown Speaker 15:02
In our conversations, you talked about how aware you are of corruption and structures of exploitation and power, yes, and actually, I would love for you to just talk about that like, when did you know it? When did you start having an awareness of that, either for yourself or for kind of the culture or society at large. When did you start noticing these, the potential for exploitation?
Unknown Speaker 15:27
So I actually started noticing those things at a very young age, especially being like a social self press. I naturally saw the world in through this like
Unknown Speaker 15:40
zoomed out scope
Unknown Speaker 15:43
where everything is connected and everyone has an impact on each other, yeah, and everything's like a large network. And what I see within this network is like a bunch of weak people and cowards giving power to those who don't,
Unknown Speaker 16:06
those who don't mean well.
Unknown Speaker 16:10
And I've always found it kind of disgusting. I've always also found it disgusting how complacent some people are in regards to corruption and how they just let it happen, even when it hap even if it happens right in front of their noses.
Unknown Speaker 16:28
And,
Unknown Speaker 16:32
yeah, I cannot stand that. And let me think I'm actually a vegetarian. I have been a vegetarian for a very long time, like, I could be a vegan. I'm aware I'm not perfect, but, um,
Unknown Speaker 16:48
but this is motivated by the animal cruelty? Yes, absolutely, yeah. And I thought like, if you're gonna eat meat, you should at least, like, pay attention to what kind of meat you're eating, because you're gonna want to have it be organic and like, pasture raised, and not, you know, factory not come from a factory farm or anything of that nature. Because I think that's like very
Unknown Speaker 17:19
indignant even for animals, which I think should
Unknown Speaker 17:25
you're frozen. Oh, never mind. Oh, no, this is just my listening face. I get very
Unknown Speaker 17:35
Yeah, I think animals have dignity too, and or deserve to have dignity, at least.
Unknown Speaker 17:43
And I've always felt this, felt this innate respect for life,
Unknown Speaker 17:52
and I've always wanted to make sure that every life is has a base level of respect going for it.
Unknown Speaker 17:59
And when I see that not happening, or that not being the case, it instinctually repulses me,
Unknown Speaker 18:10
yeah,
Unknown Speaker 18:13
oh, man, there's just so much good stuff here.
Unknown Speaker 18:17
First of all, it's amazing to me that you were so aware of this, so young. Like, what do you do? Remember what age you were when you were started to really
Unknown Speaker 18:27
see this.
Unknown Speaker 18:30
I actually cannot pinpoint it, but I would say, like, around,
Unknown Speaker 18:36
around the age of eight or nine. I would say, yeah, yeah. Yeah. What does it mean to be respected? Like, what is respect? And how do you know when it's happening,
Unknown Speaker 18:50
either for yourself or for any other life form?
Unknown Speaker 18:56
I know it's happening when I see that someone is not causing suffering for another being for their own egoistic gain.
Unknown Speaker 19:10
May that be some type of sadism or something practical,
Unknown Speaker 19:17
I believe that we should operate based on mutual benefit and not based on the exploitation of one, one for the other,
Unknown Speaker 19:30
but respect itself. I do not actually actively think about very much. I just feel like I know I know when disrespect happens, like I can just tell
Unknown Speaker 19:46
and when someone's being dodgy, it's like particularly disgusting for me, because I know that this person knows what they are doing, but they would never admit to it, and I find that so shame.
Unknown Speaker 20:00
80, uh huh, yeah. So when you I, when you say, you just know,
Unknown Speaker 20:07
what is it? How do you know?
Unknown Speaker 20:12
Oh, man,
Unknown Speaker 20:14
you're hitting me with those difficult questions. Like, those are some hard questions, but
Unknown Speaker 20:24
I know when some I know when someone's being disrespectful, if,
Unknown Speaker 20:32
if I can sense negative intent in them, like if they say something in like a way that doesn't match,
Unknown Speaker 20:41
doesn't match the context,
Unknown Speaker 20:44
unless it were for a negative intent to be,
Unknown Speaker 20:49
to be in in their mind,
Unknown Speaker 20:53
then I'm just going to assume that it's there, like this person is being disrespectful because they're having negative intent,
Unknown Speaker 21:03
and
Unknown Speaker 21:06
they're actively trying to harm someone else for their own gain.
Unknown Speaker 21:11
And
Unknown Speaker 21:17
I think respect is something very basic that we all should like exercise for one another, because
Unknown Speaker 21:27
we have, I often compare like humans, or I like to say that humans are far too advanced for the Emotional beast that we still are like
Unknown Speaker 21:41
we are so emotional and like capricious and volatile emotionally, we are not really in charge of ourselves most of the time,
Unknown Speaker 21:54
and
Unknown Speaker 21:57
we have so much intelligence. Like humans are such an intelligent SP species, but at the same time,
Unknown Speaker 22:08
we make such stupid emotional mistakes that I,
Unknown Speaker 22:14
I mean, I do understand it, but like at this rate, I think we're going to destroy ourselves
Unknown Speaker 22:22
because we have so much power, but we don't have the emotional maturity to deal with it.
Unknown Speaker 22:28
Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 22:30
you're talking my language as a fellow social self press person here. But yeah, and actually, just to comment on that from an Enneagram like theory, social self press has that wide angle lens about, like, the body politic, the kind of the human species, how we are, yes, all in the in this collective kind of together, and the ways that that collective is, I don't know, supporting itself or dooming itself based on its
Unknown Speaker 22:55
emotional maturity. So, yeah, strong resonance with that, what I'm where I'm going with, what you're saying is,
Unknown Speaker 23:05
you mentioned how,
Unknown Speaker 23:08
on some level, there is a kind of consistent effort you have to maintain a certain emotional baseline stability. Yes, but what I'm noticing is that you, your inner world is populated with all of these
Unknown Speaker 23:26
noticings of power and corruption and ways in which people can be taken advantage of. And you could call it negativity around Yes, you know,
Unknown Speaker 23:37
yeah, a sense of like we're doomed because we're so powerful, and yet we don't have the emotional maturity to handle it. So how do you navigate that? How do you stay emotionally stable
Unknown Speaker 23:50
with that level of with what you're noticing?
Unknown Speaker 23:55
Oh,
Unknown Speaker 23:58
hmm.
Unknown Speaker 24:00
How
Unknown Speaker 24:02
do how do I even do that? Like,
Unknown Speaker 24:06
I've so much going on, like, emotionally, but at the same time, I don't acknowledge any of it. So as I've said, it sort of just goes into the background of my mind, and it may accumulate in physical stress.
Unknown Speaker 24:23
But even that, I don't acknowledge most of the time, unless it's like, very extreme.
Unknown Speaker 24:31
And I would say that I tend to navigate negativity by like, compensating with personal goals. Like, I like to have personal goals. And those personal goals, like, achieving those personal goals can be like, very satisfying,
Unknown Speaker 24:52
like satisfying
Unknown Speaker 24:54
opposing pole to all the negativity that I perceive in the world. Do.
Unknown Speaker 25:00
Uh huh, yeah. Can you give
Unknown Speaker 25:02
me an example what kind of personal
Unknown Speaker 25:06
goal, like finding a job to be specific, or
Unknown Speaker 25:14
acquiring something that I've wanted for a long time, or
Unknown Speaker 25:19
doing something with my friends, or deepening a friendship, or deepening a relationship, such things.
Unknown Speaker 25:29
Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 25:33
but also, but also,
Unknown Speaker 25:37
trying to make an impact on a larger scale is very important to me, even if it's not like
Unknown Speaker 25:44
my own original idea. I like to contribute to other people's ideas, even, even if, if I'm not like the front man or whatever, it doesn't mean that I don't have, like, a strong impact on whatever is going on.
Unknown Speaker 26:00
And I like to
Unknown Speaker 26:03
influence people. And have like this, I have like this idea that
Unknown Speaker 26:10
if I assist people in their goals, it's going to
Unknown Speaker 26:16
have made my life matter more. Mattered more
Unknown Speaker 26:22
because I've enriched so many people. I live through them like even if I die, I will have lived
Unknown Speaker 26:33
in their legacies, and my legacy will be a part of their legacy. Uh huh. Uh huh.
Unknown Speaker 26:42
Yeah, yeah. It's a beautiful sentiment, and it's it strikes me as very social. Also what you're saying, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 26:48
yeah. Something that really struck me about you when I was watching your typing video and also when we spoke, is how strong your impulse is to help people see their power and value. And you have a three wing two fix, which, yes, makes sense. You know, that's that kind of life coach fix.
Unknown Speaker 27:08
But actually, let me first in your in your typing self type or in your self questioning of your type. Are you just reordering your fixes? Do you? Do you think the fixes are right? Yeah, I think the fixes are right. I just think the order isn't okay. So in terms of, you know, having three wing two fix and also having an eight wing nine fix, there's a certain kind of I want to, I want to awaken other people's sense of their own strength and capacity.
Unknown Speaker 27:39
Yes, absolutely.
Unknown Speaker 27:44
Can you talk more about that? Like, what is that? Let's see,
Unknown Speaker 27:49
what will people do with their awakened power, and
Unknown Speaker 27:54
why is that your gift to do that?
Unknown Speaker 27:59
I think it's my gift, because I'm like, not preoccupied with other things that more complacent people are, and I'm like, very much focused on, like, gaining sense of significance for myself. And like, the significance also lies within
Unknown Speaker 28:18
making other people aware of their power, and what I do with that power is obviously fight corruption and help people realize that they can change much more, that even a single person can change much more than they might be aware of like we have we Through the internet alone, we have so much more power than any person, than any person in history before us, and
Unknown Speaker 28:50
I think it's important for people to realize this, because I think people get trapped in their own hamster wheels, and they Keep repeating the same things over and over every day, and they don't realize that they could break out of their hamster wheel and actually change their lives dramatically, and the lives of others as well.
Unknown Speaker 29:14
So on this vein of helping people awaken their sense of strength and capacity. Yes, one of the things you mentioned is that it's a pet peeve of yours when people ask too much for reassurance. Yes. Can you talk about that? What is that pet peeve? What irks you about that?
Unknown Speaker 29:33
So it's a pet peeve because
Unknown Speaker 29:39
I sort of expect, because I myself don't ask for very much reassurance that other people will not ask for it either.
Unknown Speaker 29:49
But even, and even if I can, like, take people asking for some reassurance, it's like, it gets annoying the third time, you know, it gets annoying if it happens in.
Unknown Speaker 30:00
Hessently, because at some point I feel like the person isn't even listening to me anymore. They just want to be like they just want to be calmed down. And
Unknown Speaker 30:12
I feel like they should calm themselves down by listening to me and actually following the steps that I'm proposing.
Unknown Speaker 30:22
That's okay. I just, I know what you're saying and I relate.
Unknown Speaker 30:27
Yeah, so at some point, like asking for some reassurance is okay, but there's a threshold after which just becomes
Unknown Speaker 30:36
too much, where, essentially, I'm
Unknown Speaker 30:41
fascinated by your interpretation of it. I guess what you're saying is, it's like you asked for reassurance and then I gave it to you. And that should have been enough to sort of calm me down and help you get back in control, or, I don't know, back in back into feeling your own strength, I guess, yes. And then
Unknown Speaker 31:04
when that didn't land for you, or when you couldn't locate your own strength, and you kept asking for reassurance, then it kind of, it almost exposes that as a as a almost character flaw, or us, or us, this maybe is too strong of a word, yeah. Is that too strong a word?
Unknown Speaker 31:20
Yeah, I would say it's, it's too strong of a word, okay? Like,
Unknown Speaker 31:25
I think a more adequate term would be like
Unknown Speaker 31:30
something neurotic, like a neurosis of cirrhosis, yeah, okay, that makes sense.
Unknown Speaker 31:38
Do you ever have a need for reassurance yourself.
Unknown Speaker 31:45
I mean, like, if it's about, like, a method that I
Unknown Speaker 31:52
if I'm like, under like, a lot of stress, and someone explained how to do something to me,
Unknown Speaker 32:00
but I did not fully register it, because my mind wasn't like, fully absorb, fully absorbing it the first time. Then yes, I can actually need reassurance myself, but I don't need reassurance in my character, like I already know what I want out of life, and I know how to get it, and I know how to pursue my goals.
Unknown Speaker 32:24
Those things are not the problem,
Unknown Speaker 32:29
just like the problem for many people, because most people are very like averse to taking risks, and because of that, they never achieve the freedom that they so much desire,
Unknown Speaker 32:48
and you experience yourself as being willing to take risks. Absolutely, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 32:55
is it to say more? What kind of can you give me an example?
Unknown Speaker 33:01
Well, sure, like, financial risks, for instance, or
Unknown Speaker 33:08
um risks that I'm not sure I should talk about, okay, okay. Like, like, okay, um, let's, let's say
Unknown Speaker 33:18
I like to
Unknown Speaker 33:21
talk about topics that are pretty niche or niche. Is it pronounced niche or niche? Oh, excuse me, yeah, that's okay.
Unknown Speaker 33:32
And
Unknown Speaker 33:35
yeah, I like to talk about taboo topics,
Unknown Speaker 33:39
and it can make me unpopular among certain groups of people,
Unknown Speaker 33:45
and I'm willing to take those risks to be myself. But I'm also like, willing, you know, if it were not for my mental illness, I would actually just, I would actually just have moved into a one room apartment, and I would have started a business of my own, and I would have grinded all day and all night just to get where I want to be, like I'm that much of like an ambitious person deep down, and that much identified with Where I'm going in my life and my destiny,
Unknown Speaker 34:24
and I don't know where it comes from, like it's something intrinsic. I guess it might be genes, it might be that I was raised in a particular way, but or a combination of both. But
Unknown Speaker 34:41
it's very frustrating for me to not be able to just go through life and take take all those immense risks that I actually think are very essential to
Unknown Speaker 34:56
actually get anywhere in life and like advance in life.
Unknown Speaker 35:00
Slave and not just be a slave to the system.
Unknown Speaker 35:08
Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 35:10
not be a slave to the system. That's, I mean, there's a
Unknown Speaker 35:14
that's a really adjacent phrase to an important eight word, which is autonomy, and you've used the word freedom a couple times as well. I of times as well. Yes.
Unknown Speaker 35:26
So I guess let me just reflect on what you said, and then I kind of asked the question. So first of all, I found it really interesting that you went to social risk when I posed that question, like the risk of introducing a niche topic or saying something taboo or controversial in a context when you're not
Unknown Speaker 35:45
assured in advance that it's going to be accepted, just that that is a kind of risk, right? And as a social type, the
Unknown Speaker 35:54
awareness that that's a kind of risk, and then that, just that the fact that that's where your mind went is just, Oh, that's interesting. As a social type, that's where your mind went. But then the other risk that you talked about is the kind of risk where you choose
Unknown Speaker 36:08
and kind of like, commit to
Unknown Speaker 36:11
a goal or a vision of your life, and then you actually pour your life force into it and make it happen, you know, and the risk of betting on yourself. You could say,
Unknown Speaker 36:23
Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 36:25
let's see.
Unknown Speaker 36:27
And the kind of the juice that's worth that squeeze is freedom, autonomy. It's like, what's it's, you know, not having to be a slave anymore to the system. Yes. And so, can you talk about what is, what is the nature of this enslavement prior to accessing that freedom? And then what do you get on the other side? Like a waste of time, a perpetual waste of time, like, especially if you're not identified with where you're going, then you're just wasting your time, and you're wasting your time
Unknown Speaker 37:00
living in your comfortable bubble that is actually creating more suffering than pleasure, but you're so used to suffering that you, you, you, you almost get accustomed to suffering to such a degree that you that you become blind to it. And I think that's like a very toxic thing in our society, because most of us don't even,
Unknown Speaker 37:27
most of us don't even follow our dreams anymore, and most of us,
Unknown Speaker 37:32
most of us, give up on their dreams. Give up on our dreams at a certain age or after certain events, I think that it's like very sad.
Unknown Speaker 37:44
But there's another thing I wanted to add, which is, I think that people don't realize how much potential they have,
Unknown Speaker 37:55
and
Unknown Speaker 38:00
they very much have the capacity, like anyone else, to become successful just by putting their mind to it and putting their heart into it.
Unknown Speaker 38:12
And
Unknown Speaker 38:15
I don't think success isn't necessarily like becoming rich, or anything like even if that's like a good thing
Unknown Speaker 38:24
to become financially independent, at least, but like success is also finding your calling and doing something that doesn't just feel like work, but actually like something that you want to do,
Unknown Speaker 38:38
something that You find purpose in, and even if that purpose is like being a nurse, then I think that's that's a great purpose,
Unknown Speaker 38:49
even if it's not paid very well, which is like, very sad to me, very
Unknown Speaker 38:57
unfair, because those
Unknown Speaker 39:02
those jobs are indispensable to many, many of us, to all of us, actually,
Unknown Speaker 39:09
yeah, and
Unknown Speaker 39:13
I believe that.
Unknown Speaker 39:17
I believe that
Unknown Speaker 39:20
if we all followed the goal to improve our lives and mitigate suffering on a larger scale, then the world would automatically be a much better place, because we would not just be taking advantage of each other, but we would focus on not only making our own lives pleasurable, but the lives of others too.
Unknown Speaker 39:48
And I think there are, is a multi there is a multitude of ways to do so, yeah, one of which I've already mentioned, I.
Unknown Speaker 40:00
But like,
Unknown Speaker 40:02
you should really assess yourself and become aware of how much you can actually do with what you've been given by your parents, like with your genes, or by God, to be, I'm not even religious, but like, it sounds kind of epic,
Unknown Speaker 40:21
but like,
Unknown Speaker 40:24
I'm sorry if I'm rambling a little bit, but
Unknown Speaker 40:29
no, yeah, I don't experience this as rambling. There's a couple things I want to pull out of what you're saying. I
Unknown Speaker 40:36
I think so. First of all, there's like an inherent
Unknown Speaker 40:41
there's like a theory that you have that was implied in what you're saying, that the
Unknown Speaker 40:48
reason people take advantage of other people is because they're not sort of pure in their path of self actualization. Maybe, as a way to put it, yeah, that is absolutely true, and that is a very good summary
Unknown Speaker 41:04
of what I intended to say and communicate, yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 41:11
And then the other piece is, yeah. It's sort of a corollary to that, which is,
Unknown Speaker 41:17
you know, in order to
Unknown Speaker 41:20
access that pure motive of self actualization. There's a certain realistic taking stock of what you have, what you're given. Yes,
Unknown Speaker 41:30
yeah. And that strikes me. I'll just say it out. It strikes me also as a as a very eight, let's see maybe just the full tri fix, actually, 863,
Unknown Speaker 41:39
perspective, like this is what you got. This is what you can do with it, and this is kind of your it's your sort of duty to yourself, you could say, to honor what you've been given and to actualize it.
Unknown Speaker 41:55
And in so doing it, it cleans up any ulterior, corrupting motives that could lead to you taking advantage of other people? Yeah, I have another topic I want to introduce all right. This is sort of rewinding our conversation a bit to the part where we're talking about
Unknown Speaker 42:15
awareness of the possibility of being taken advantage of. And you mentioned that earlier in your life there was a an incident that happened to you where you felt betrayed. Yeah, I know that. You know we're not going to talk about the details of that specific situation, but I I'm curious if you're willing to talk about kind of the emotional impact, or what what it was like to experience that
Unknown Speaker 42:39
in whatever you know, however vague you'd like to be about the actual incident, but I'm curious about your emotional dynamics
Unknown Speaker 42:46
around it. So it was, like, very strange, because it was so unexpected. Okay, so
Unknown Speaker 42:55
at first there was, like, a lot of confusion, like, as to why it even happened.
Unknown Speaker 43:01
And then it turned into
Unknown Speaker 43:08
anger and trying to
Unknown Speaker 43:12
actually, like,
Unknown Speaker 43:14
avoid that person, like a lot, are you able to say sorry without sharing details about the incident, but is it?
Unknown Speaker 43:23
And you can say no to this question, but I'm curious if just, is there any kind of architecture of the situation that you're able to provide, like, it was a kind of abandonment or, or something that someone said, or, I don't know, like, what, what was the, what was
Unknown Speaker 43:37
the form of the betrayal?
Unknown Speaker 43:40
Oh, it was like an interpersonal betrayal, like
Unknown Speaker 43:45
someone that I had considered close doing something that I would not expect from somebody who's close to someone else to do.
Unknown Speaker 43:56
And
Unknown Speaker 43:58
I don't think I can provide more context than that. Okay,
Unknown Speaker 44:04
okay,
Unknown Speaker 44:07
so, so, yeah, what? What was your reaction?
Unknown Speaker 44:13
So my first reaction was that
Unknown Speaker 44:22
I'm ashamed to say this, but I told a bunch of people online about it,
Unknown Speaker 44:30
and
Unknown Speaker 44:33
like I countered the betrayal with my own form of betrayal. I see okay, okay, but, or revenge, if you want to call it that,
Unknown Speaker 44:46
but it was not a direct form of revenge, like I did not make the person suffer, and actually very much
Unknown Speaker 44:58
I still respect.
Unknown Speaker 45:00
The person because of how close they were to me, that
Unknown Speaker 45:04
I still didn't want to hurt them, so I kept the hurt to myself for the most part, except for online.
Unknown Speaker 45:11
And
Unknown Speaker 45:14
I feel like this betrayal was like an act of like corruption, basically.
Unknown Speaker 45:21
And
Unknown Speaker 45:27
Hmm,
Unknown Speaker 45:28
I think that
Unknown Speaker 45:33
this act of corruption,
Unknown Speaker 45:36
I'm still not fully over like it. I have forgiven the person by now.
Unknown Speaker 45:42
But
Unknown Speaker 45:44
you know when something so impactful on you that even if you forgive the person, there's still like something inside of you that has changed? Yes, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 45:58
when you say you were ashamed of your of the kind of posting it on social media or sharing with your friends, yes, is the shame just because you know retribution or revenge is not in your values, or was it more in a like, let's see where I went with that was I was wondering if the shame was about
Unknown Speaker 46:23
ex telling other people exposing
Unknown Speaker 46:27
a part of you that could be hurt.
Unknown Speaker 46:31
I think it was a mixture of both, yeah, it was a mixture of both, okay, yeah, like, like, sort of accidentally exposing your vulnerability, or something like
Unknown Speaker 46:43
that, that for one, and also because
Unknown Speaker 46:52
I feel like it's such a weak move to do that instead of, like directly confronting the person that betrayed you, and I don't know, I still don't understand why I acted the way I did about it. But now it cannot be undone. It cannot be redone. So I'm over it, but it's still, it's it has still changed me lastingly.
Unknown Speaker 47:21
How? Has it changed you?
Unknown Speaker 47:25
I guess it has made me more paranoid
Unknown Speaker 47:29
and more anxious and socially anxious, because now I go around questioning everybody's motives, which is not something I used to do as much.
Unknown Speaker 47:45
Yeah, yeah. So there's a preemptive
Unknown Speaker 47:49
self protecting skepticism, yes, absolutely, yeah. So I guess what I'm wondering is, are you interested in having that shift, or have you kind of accepted the change? And that's just where you're at now?
Unknown Speaker 48:07
Um, I think I would like for it to be changed, but
Unknown Speaker 48:14
I don't think it's possible anymore, like I know how how deep it is within me now,
Unknown Speaker 48:22
and
Unknown Speaker 48:24
that wound, or that wound, is not even a wound anymore. It's a scar by now, like scars don't go away,
Unknown Speaker 48:33
and
Unknown Speaker 48:37
I don't believe that any amount of
Unknown Speaker 48:45
any amount of social interaction or
Unknown Speaker 48:49
therapy could
Unknown Speaker 48:55
not trying to think of that meme.
Unknown Speaker 48:58
There's a meme that goes like no amount of therapy will ever make this moment okay, okay, but yeah,
Unknown Speaker 49:10
I don't think that
Unknown Speaker 49:13
it can be fixed anymore. And I'm sort of like, I'm sort of like, I've spoken I've actually even spoken about it with my therapist,
Unknown Speaker 49:25
but my former therapist, not my current therapist, but it didn't fix anything like it. I just there. There was no catharsis in expressing. It sort of just happened
Unknown Speaker 49:38
and
Unknown Speaker 49:40
just feels,
Unknown Speaker 49:44
feels pointless to try and fight it anymore, because it's so deeply within me, because of,
Unknown Speaker 49:55
I don't know, it's really difficult to talk about, actually, because it's so painful. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 50:00
Yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 50:03
Okay, that makes sense. I guess I'll just comment one thing, which is that,
Unknown Speaker 50:10
yeah, so the virtue of eight is what we call innocence, and it's that, like willingness to expose myself to the world and to be touched, and often what causes a loss of that innocence is a situation, or like you're describing, where it's like something hurt me so bad, where I kind of close off and decide I'm never gonna let that happen me again.
Unknown Speaker 50:33
Yeah? And a certain kind of vigilance takes its place,
Unknown Speaker 50:38
yeah, yeah. And the armoring also,
Unknown Speaker 50:44
that is very much the case, and
Unknown Speaker 50:49
I think it has only I used to actually be quite like comparatively compared to how I feel nowadays. I used to actually be quite vulnerable. I used to be more open with my feelings,
Unknown Speaker 51:04
but ever since that happened, I've become so like, I
Unknown Speaker 51:10
don't want to say tough, because I want to pat myself on the back or anything. Might be the six fix
Unknown Speaker 51:17
or the six core,
Unknown Speaker 51:21
but
Unknown Speaker 51:25
yeah, it is just toughened me up, and
Unknown Speaker 51:30
I feel like the same situation were to happen Again, I would definitely react differently,
Unknown Speaker 51:38
but
Unknown Speaker 51:42
the pain wouldn't be as deep anymore, because my expectation of the world has already adjusted to such a dramatic degree that it wouldn't even be a surprise for me anymore for that to happen again, because I've become this this event has changed how I view the world so dramatically that it has sort of like destroyed my faith in humanity. And I'm like, actively fighting, actively fighting this lack of emotional faith in humanity, even if I cognitively know that there's still faith to be had in humanity, and that it's like the best path to have faith in humanity, because there is no point in being negative. It's only gonna make things worse.
Unknown Speaker 52:33
But the faith is just not emotional. On an emotional level, it's not there, right? It's not available, yeah, yes, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 52:46
yeah. Do you? Do you have a sense that it could be restored or no?
Unknown Speaker 52:55
Subjectively, no, but I think it could be restored for other people, and I think that other people,
Unknown Speaker 53:05
I think the world could objectively become a better place, that's for certain. But I don't think that my faith in humanity could be restored on an emotional level. Right, right, right. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 53:18
Um, okay, new topic for you.
Unknown Speaker 53:22
So you mentioned diplomacy being one of your strengths, yes, and I thought that was a really cool word, and I want to know what you mean by it. And why is it a strength?
Unknown Speaker 53:34
So it's a strength because
Unknown Speaker 53:39
I think diplomacy, or diplomacy is very useful
Unknown Speaker 53:45
for solving conflicts, obviously, and it's good to at least consider another person's perspective before charging at them or whatever,
Unknown Speaker 53:59
or like arguing with them,
Unknown Speaker 54:04
and it's better. Diplomacy is important because it's better to learn from others than to be like a closed off person who who never considers other people's opinions,
Unknown Speaker 54:18
because that way we actually learn and we get closer to the truth and the nuance that truth requires, because truth is not always black and white,
Unknown Speaker 54:33
and
Unknown Speaker 54:36
Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 54:39
anything you would want me to expound on that. Yeah, what makes you good at it? What makes you good at diplomacy?
Unknown Speaker 54:48
What makes me good at diplomacy is basically emotional self control.
Unknown Speaker 54:54
I have a lot of emotional self control most of the time.
Unknown Speaker 54:59
And.
Unknown Speaker 55:00
Yeah, I guess it's just like
Unknown Speaker 55:05
a natural skill. I think it's inherent, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 55:09
Have you ever lost your temper?
Unknown Speaker 55:14
Yeah, yeah, a few times, a few times, but rare. I
Unknown Speaker 55:20
yeah,
Unknown Speaker 55:23
I mean, there is, like, a difference between,
Unknown Speaker 55:29
I mean, it's typically the losing your temper is typically, typically defined as, like, being expressive with your anger. You can also lose your temper and not express it, which,
Unknown Speaker 55:42
which would be more common in my case, like I get upset pretty quickly and often,
Unknown Speaker 55:49
but
Unknown Speaker 55:52
if I express it,
Unknown Speaker 55:55
it's usually very intense, and people tend to take those things personally, and I don't have time for people to take things like that personally, even if it's not meant personally.
Unknown Speaker 56:11
And I guess I'm always look it doesn't happen that often, because I'm always looking out for other people's weaknesses, and
Unknown Speaker 56:24
I don't want to catch myself
Unknown Speaker 56:28
making use or taking advantage, or, um,
Unknown Speaker 56:34
taking, yeah, taking advantage of other people's weaknesses. So that's why I am
Unknown Speaker 56:42
more diplomatic than one would expect from like the stereotypical eight
Unknown Speaker 56:48
I see it's kind of a merciful quality you're pointing to, yes, like noticing a person's weakness, but not putting your finger on the nerve,
Unknown Speaker 56:57
sort of deliberately restraining yourself from doing it. Let's see, as a person who doesn't have any eight in me, like
Unknown Speaker 57:04
it's nowhere in my typing, I wonder about what
Unknown Speaker 57:09
like when you say that you notice someone's weakness? Yes,
Unknown Speaker 57:14
like,
Unknown Speaker 57:17
is it something that it's like an exposed nerve, that you know that you know that if you touch it, they're going to react really strong, or a place where they just don't have a lot of
Unknown Speaker 57:27
developed skill, or, I don't know, like, what, like, what is a weakness? It's like an emotional nerve that's tied to their identity. I see, okay, yeah, and
Unknown Speaker 57:42
it. I don't want to mess with people's self images, even it's almost like very
Unknown Speaker 57:49
guttural. I'm not using, I'm not even using this term in, like, the Enneagram context, but like, it is guttural, and I just feel on an emotional level, if another person is going to react negatively to what I have to say,
Unknown Speaker 58:04
and that is sort of where both eight and six come in, right? Because, yeah, I have, I sense, I can sense their weakness. And at the same time, I'm like, I want to be
Unknown Speaker 58:20
I want to be cooperative and cautious,
Unknown Speaker 58:25
because
Unknown Speaker 58:27
I do not want to
Unknown Speaker 58:30
get into trouble for
Unknown Speaker 58:32
telling the truth, even if, like, if the truth is not that important, I can, like, lock it away. I can, I can keep myself from speaking the truth. But if this, if the truth is very important, I cannot help but speak it. But if I think the the stakes are just another person's emotional well being,
Unknown Speaker 58:56
then and me speaking the truth would just ruin their day or even a longer period of time for them,
Unknown Speaker 59:06
then I'm most likely going to admit it,
Unknown Speaker 59:10
Okay, makes sense. So one other topic I want to explore with you is the kind of boundlessness of your motivation. Yes, absolutely,
Unknown Speaker 59:25
yeah, just you already talked about it to some degree, like having,
Unknown Speaker 59:32
you know, like the desire to, or if you had, if the circumstances aligned, that you would have picked a business and then just grinded day and night until that business was manifest, you know you, I know that you also had, when you were younger, huge political aspirations. And so I just wonder about, like, can you talk about where your motivation comes from, your reserves of energy? And I.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:00
Yeah, maybe where they get pointed to. Now,
Unknown Speaker 1:00:04
I suppose I used to be like a very
Unknown Speaker 1:00:11
I have this instinctual hunger in me, like I just need more sort of and
Unknown Speaker 1:00:18
I am much more dissatisfied on a base level than most, than the average person is.
Unknown Speaker 1:00:27
And in order for me to feel any satisfaction, I have to do much more, and I have to get much, much bigger, much better
Unknown Speaker 1:00:37
things and like achievements, than other people do, because other people,
Unknown Speaker 1:00:44
other people can have, like, a nice meal and be like, satisfied. Like, I have a nice meal and I'm like, satisfied for a couple seconds, and then I forget about it. But like, there are people who are not that way. Like, there are people who who actually enjoy like a good sleep, good nights of sleep,
Unknown Speaker 1:01:05
or people who get satisfaction from
Unknown Speaker 1:01:12
their personal life.
Unknown Speaker 1:01:15
But for me, I feel like my my personal life
Unknown Speaker 1:01:20
must be larger than myself in a way,
Unknown Speaker 1:01:24
and I must not restrict myself or restrain myself to bubble that is too comfortable, because if I do the same things over and over again, I'm going to Feel meaningless and pointless
Unknown Speaker 1:01:38
and like somebody who's not exerting their will,
Unknown Speaker 1:01:46
and
Unknown Speaker 1:01:51
this natural fountain of willpower that I have,
Unknown Speaker 1:01:57
it's
Unknown Speaker 1:01:59
it's also like the product of me feeling empty quickly,
Unknown Speaker 1:02:07
because I don't get that much stimulation from things that other people get stimulation from.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:16
And in order for me to feel alive, I need to do a lot more than the average person. And
Unknown Speaker 1:02:24
that's a big eight word, right there, alive,
Unknown Speaker 1:02:27
yes, um, yeah. What does that? What does that mean to feel alive? For you?
Unknown Speaker 1:02:34
I mean feeling alive,
Unknown Speaker 1:02:40
feeling alive.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:46
I think that
Unknown Speaker 1:02:49
feeling alive
Unknown Speaker 1:02:51
is like
Unknown Speaker 1:02:54
I feel like I'm actually living to feel alive and like all the nice social self press, things that I've said are, sort of are sort of like
Unknown Speaker 1:03:08
the things I want to do while feeling alive, so that my aliveness
Unknown Speaker 1:03:14
has a good purpose. But like the the need, like the neurotic need is actually
Unknown Speaker 1:03:24
the aliveness.
Unknown Speaker 1:03:26
There you go. Yeah, that's a powerful statement, right there, yeah. And
Unknown Speaker 1:03:33
I keep doing the disclaimer, because I know you're in this type questioning thing. So for eight, if you are core eight, then the aliveness thing is, you know, aliveness is the essential quality of type eight. And the way that the eight structure tends to work is that we lose touch with our essential quality, and then we try to, like, manufacture us our essential quality through the personality. So for me, it's a type three, losing touch with essential value and then trying to create a sense of value in myself by achieving, by earning admiration, et cetera. And eight, has this pattern of,
Unknown Speaker 1:04:14
sort of, well you actually described it very beautifully earlier on, kind of like compartmentalizing my inner, sensory and emotional world, and kind of dulling myself.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:24
And, well, you got killing parts of myself, you know. But as a result of that, I dull my inner experience and feel very un alive. And then I have to go out into the world and, like really
Unknown Speaker 1:04:38
make contact in a powerful way in order to manufacture a sense of aliveness. And so this inner push that comes with being a type eight is often kind of that a result of that engine revving to make myself feel alive. Yeah, and it's like you.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:00
I suppress. I suppress. Okay, let me put it this way, I suppress all of my negative emotions for people around me who I consider weak in those situations, who consider these moments much more valuable than I do
Unknown Speaker 1:05:19
on a basic level, because it is what actually defines their life, and I don't want to accept that this is what defines my life. So so I reduce the emotionality there
Unknown Speaker 1:05:35
and save it for moments that actually matter. I know that this is like,
Unknown Speaker 1:05:42
I know that this is can be like a toxic trait, because you repress so much emotion that people cannot really get to you and feel misunderstood.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:53
But
Unknown Speaker 1:05:57
I I just have this need to
Unknown Speaker 1:06:01
point myself
Unknown Speaker 1:06:04
into the direction,
Unknown Speaker 1:06:07
or, like, push myself into the direction
Unknown Speaker 1:06:10
of significance, and like, expansiveness. And yes, yes, yeah, the things that really matter where I can absorb as much space as possible, uh huh,
Unknown Speaker 1:06:25
which I actually don't, I don't get, like, a lot from like personal drama. It just doesn't do anything for me.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:37
I know, I know some people who
Unknown Speaker 1:06:40
get high off of personal drama, but it's like nothing to me, and I need everything to be grand and like on a big stage, basically, for those things to matter.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:55
And not to say that I don't have loved ones, because I obviously do. I just wish that they could realize that their lives could also be much greater and that they don't have to suffer for the rest of their lives, least not for the majority of the rest of their lives.
Unknown Speaker 1:07:16
You said this the phrase that I wrote down that really struck me, where around what you just described. And it's, it was like an inner wish to
Unknown Speaker 1:07:26
redistribute. This is your phrase, to redistribute my motivation into other people and excite them into action. Yes, which I love that phrase. And it's, I mean, that's kind of the galvanizing energy of of of eight, you know. And it's the sense of, you
Unknown Speaker 1:07:47
know, actually, what you're describing is making me think, how,
Unknown Speaker 1:07:52
with your whole tri fix and with being social self, Pres, there's almost like, actually,
Unknown Speaker 1:08:00
let me put it this way. As a fellow social self press type, I experience almost a kind of perpetual
Unknown Speaker 1:08:07
grief that the collective, the social self press collective, is not in its most high potential form. You know, it's like, and probably as a core three I'm like, very, very sensitive to that potential in general. But
Unknown Speaker 1:08:23
as you take that in, as you kind of sense where the social self press Collective is, the sense of wanting to enliven it, you know, to
Unknown Speaker 1:08:34
vivify it, is really strong.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:40
Yeah, yeah for sure. Like,
Unknown Speaker 1:08:44
I feel like,
Unknown Speaker 1:08:47
if I can be like a motor for other people, like an engine for other people,
Unknown Speaker 1:08:54
then that motivates me back. And I can, like, ping off of that, and it makes me even, even go even harder into that so I can, like, expand infinitely, if I put my mind to it, at least, that's how it feels. Yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:09:12
Do you get tired?
Unknown Speaker 1:09:16
I do get tired, actually, but I don't like to admit it, right? And,
Unknown Speaker 1:09:24
and,
Unknown Speaker 1:09:27
yeah, I get physically tired, but also, like, I get mentally stressed out. I I've like the I've, like, the limitations of a human being. I just don't like to acknowledge them, and I I don't get tired quickly if I'm passionate about something, right, which, which is when I which is when I can go on forever. Basically, like, I'm the type of person that has the most stamina of anybody. If he's, like,
Unknown Speaker 1:09:56
um, really invested in something, yeah, that.
Unknown Speaker 1:10:00
Tracks. You know,
Unknown Speaker 1:10:02
what I was thinking too, just as you're talking is how, how important it is for eights to feel met by another life force, or to to experience life force that isn't just coming from me. Like you're expressing this kind of wish to be an engine or a motor for people. It's almost like, yeah, use me, like to, you know, like, be inspired by my energy, take it, you know, and like, Go forth and prosper. But also, I'm wondering about the experience like, do you have? Do you have the experience of when you meet someone else who is already on fire with their own passion and life force? What impact does that have on you?
Unknown Speaker 1:10:40
I I think it depends on how how they express that life force, because there are different ways of expressing that. But I think it almost makes me thrilled to be in the same space as them and like, excited, right? Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 1:10:58
and
Unknown Speaker 1:11:02
it makes me want to either compete or collaborate with them. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah. That makes sense, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:13
So, okay, so I'm noticing the time. I'm wondering if there's anything that we haven't covered that you want to hit about yourself.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:21
I think
Unknown Speaker 1:11:24
there is this misconception
Unknown Speaker 1:11:28
that
Unknown Speaker 1:11:32
there is this misconception that
Unknown Speaker 1:11:36
aids don't care even if they're like a social type,
Unknown Speaker 1:11:40
if they're like social Dom in their stacking.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:44
But I think I actually believe that through the lens of social and especially social self, press
Unknown Speaker 1:11:54
your your limits and your bounds, the your bounds are not,
Unknown Speaker 1:12:01
are not that rigid, and they are not as small as for other,
Unknown Speaker 1:12:09
as for other eight other types of AIDS.
Unknown Speaker 1:12:13
So basically, I feel like
Unknown Speaker 1:12:17
I need to save the whole world,
Unknown Speaker 1:12:20
but I am aware that I cannot do that,
Unknown Speaker 1:12:25
and
Unknown Speaker 1:12:28
like I know that.
Unknown Speaker 1:12:33
I know that other aids, like
Unknown Speaker 1:12:36
Emeka, for instance, has said that he doesn't care if someone is not in their circle, but, like, my circle doesn't have any limits. Like, I'm willing to, right, take anybody into my circle.
Unknown Speaker 1:12:52
Yeah, that's that huge, wide aperture of social self. Pros, yes, yeah, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 1:12:59
that tracks, and I relate to that myself.
Unknown Speaker 1:13:03
Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:13:05
And other than that,
Unknown Speaker 1:13:11
I feel like,
Unknown Speaker 1:13:16
I feel like eights are often like,
Unknown Speaker 1:13:20
portrayed as the selfish monsters,
Unknown Speaker 1:13:24
but people don't understand.
Unknown Speaker 1:13:29
People don't understand that
Unknown Speaker 1:13:36
most of us are just normal human beings, like
Unknown Speaker 1:13:42
we are not out to exploit you, like I personally am disgusted by the thought of exploiting someone else,
Unknown Speaker 1:13:51
and
Unknown Speaker 1:13:55
if someone is making themselves so dependent on on the exploitation of another person they are probably actually not an aid
Unknown Speaker 1:14:07
that. That's just my point of view. That's just my opinion,
Unknown Speaker 1:14:11
because an aide doesn't want to rely on anybody but themselves,
Unknown Speaker 1:14:18
and a person can be like in terms of use, not in terms of relationships. Person can be a nice accessory, but a person, one person, will not be like
Unknown Speaker 1:14:33
life or death for me,
Unknown Speaker 1:14:36
because I'm holding myself already,
Unknown Speaker 1:14:40
right, and I know that's a great phrase, actually holding yourself yeah in terms of the body sensor, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 1:14:48
yeah,
Unknown Speaker 1:14:51
yeah. I'll just actually cosign on that, because the sense of
Unknown Speaker 1:14:56
people underestimate the
Unknown Speaker 1:14:58
sense of separateness.
Unknown Speaker 1:15:00
Right? That eights hold Absolutely, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:15:04
And the idea of, like, being overly involved, you know, or enmeshed with others, is sort of this, you know, it's, it's really, it's really contrary to the whole age structure, right? It's like the eight structure is meant to be sovereign and not to depend on sort of any one thing outside of me, to for what, for anything I need. Yes, yeah. So I want to say, thanks for doing this. And I also want to ask, What's this been like for you to do this interview?
Unknown Speaker 1:15:36
It has been great, actually. It has been very entertaining to see myself reflected in someone as empathetic and smart as you are,
Unknown Speaker 1:15:48
because,
Unknown Speaker 1:15:51
because, no, I actually mean this. And
Unknown Speaker 1:15:57
I know it's like, very over the top, but I actually mean it,
Unknown Speaker 1:16:03
but this has been a very like useful exercise for me get back in touch with myself, because
Unknown Speaker 1:16:12
I tend to sort of even suppress my own pride,
Unknown Speaker 1:16:18
but by reflecting on myself and having someone else mirror me,
Unknown Speaker 1:16:25
I
Unknown Speaker 1:16:28
I actually feel a little more alive for the time. Being
Unknown Speaker 1:16:34
cool. Yeah, a little heart. Little heart. Pump for
Unknown Speaker 1:16:38
you there. I also wanted to thank you for, I know you're
Unknown Speaker 1:16:45
let's see.
Unknown Speaker 1:16:46
Oh God,
Unknown Speaker 1:16:49
keep that's keeps happening today. Excuse
Unknown Speaker 1:16:54
me. I also
Unknown Speaker 1:16:55
wanted to thank you for being willing to reflect on yourself potentially as an eight you know, with all my questions, yes, and I know you're kind of in that question of what actually is your core, but no, I appreciate you your openness to my questions and your willingness to reflect in real time and appreciate the kind words too.
Unknown Speaker 1:17:16
Yeah, no problem. So Okay, thank you very much. And yeah, we'll go ahead and close.
Unknown Speaker 1:17:25
It's nice talking to you.
Unknown Speaker 1:17:29
Likewise, thank you so much for tuning into my conversation with Bjarne. If you liked this conversation, then please click the like button or hit subscribe. If you're watching on YouTube or if you're listening to this as a podcast, then you can leave up to a five star review, and you can also leave some comments if you're listening on Spotify or Apple. Those are free and very effective ways of supporting me and my work and the work that we do here at The Enneagram School. If you would like to learn more about the Enneagram, then you can come check us out at the enneagramschool.com there are a lot of free resources right there on the website, writing, for example, type descriptions, as well as an overview of the Enneagram. There's also a catalog of all the interviews that we've done, just like this right there on the homepage, you can click on the tab that says interviews, and you can go search interviews by type and by instinctual stacking. Also, we have an intro course, which I plugged in the beginning, but that's a great place to start if you are want to just learn what makes the Enneagram, the Enneagram, why the Enneagram works, what are the fundamental concepts that build into the coherent structure that it is, and also deep dives on all the nine types. So that's great for beginners. If you're on ramping, or if you're an advanced student, you'd like a refresher on the basics. Finally, this podcast, what it's like to be you is a part of a larger collective of creatives, and I'd like to plug a couple other things. So we have a new podcast called House of Enneagram that is a more kind of collective, collaborative chit chat radio talk show, kind of podcast with a rotating cast of Enneagram experts talking about applications of the Enneagram and arts and politics and culture and TV, as well as exploring different niche aspects of the Enneagram as well.
Unknown Speaker 1:19:03
And also, we have another podcast called insomnia that explores the relationship between dreams and the unconscious and the Enneagram as well as our typing team, typing [email protected]
Unknown Speaker 1:19:14
and you can go check out their typing services and their members area, where you can watch them make typing distinctions in real time by watching celebrities on YouTube. So lots of good stuff in our content universe. Please go check all that out. And if you think that you're a good candidate to be interviewed on this show, then I would love to hear from you. You can just contact me right through The Enneagram School Contact Form preference specifically goes to people who've been officially typed by the typing team at enneagrammer, and once again, you can go check them [email protected]
Unknown Speaker 1:19:46
all the links will be in the show notes. Thank you very much, and I will see you next time
Unknown Speaker 1:19:59
you.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
