#33: Russ Hudson, Type 5: Isolation, Hyperfocus, & Escaping to Emptiness

"When we live inside a pattern, we don't know that we're living inside a pattern, which is why it's hard for people to type themselves. We just think that's reality. It's like the Johari box, there's what we don't know what we don't know. And I didn't know how desperately disconnected I was. I didn't feel as a child that was missing out on anything. I thought I was just fine. I thought watching the ants was more interesting."

Russ Hudson co-authored The Wisdom of the Enneagram and other Enneagram classics with his longtime collaborator Don Riso. He is also the Co-Founder of the Enneagram Institute and the Founding Director and former Vice President of the International Enneagram Association. Russ has appeared on Good Morning America and The CBS Morning Show and is a popular speaker at conferences and retreat centers around the world including the Esalen Institute, the Wisdom 2.0 Conference, and the Science and Non-Duality Conference (SAND).

Russ Hudson

The Enneagram School

Get Typed

Time Stamps

0:00 Intro

2:52: Interview Start — Discovering I was a 5

8:41 The “Ouch” of facing my disconnection

11:03 Spending time alone in childhood, not feeling like I was missing out

14:03 Hard to feel genuine connection or belonging

16:49 Connection problem not fixable on level of personality; not "safe" around people

18:08 Russ' emotional breakthrough & receiving holding

23:35 Love present even when people are deluded or in personality

25:15 Reconciling science & religion since childhood

30:03 Mystery: why some people shrug off experiences but others are transformed -- 5 judgement of others’ valuing their ignorance

32:43 Touch overwhelming as kid — complicates romance & sex; Somatic tightness cementing social isolation

37:24 5 fear the "overwhelm of being"

40:29 Inner experience of escaping to emptiness

43:05 Mental density or emptiness polarity — penetrating into the void

47:30 The experience of discovery, illumination

50:32 The gift & danger of Russ's meticulous memory

52:48 Romance & relationships; merging with ambivalence

57:04 Unsentimental realism / non-attachment "vs" nihilism, cynicism, eject from world

1:00:27 5 Uncooperativeness “vs” flexing for relationship

1:03:51 How Russ relate to your publicness as a 5?

1:06:26 Avarice, withholding of self; withdrawal is rapid and intense

1:11:20 Growing edge: SP blindspot; keeping hope, fighting natural tendency for cynicism; "reasons to be cheerful”

1:17:40 Are you still interested in the enneagram?

1:19:36 The practical angle of creativity

1:21:55 Impractical interests

1:25:46 Plugs


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