#19: Czan, Type 9 – Twice an Immigrant, Toggling "Existing" On/Off, & Owl Medicine [SO/SP 9w1 953]

Czan [SO/SP 9w1 953] is a software engineer for a gaming company and currently lives in the US. He's an original Enneagram thinker, and "Attachment to Disconnect" is his profound insight into how Attachment types create situations to continue reaching for connection, rather than stably connecting. Czan has experience with various inner work modalities and has excellent insights about being an Enneagram 9. I'll add that I experienced his 5 fix vividly in this conversation, which you'll see in the way Czan maintains intellectual separateness.



0:00 Intro

2:32 Enneagram Origin Story

5:14 Twice an immigrant; adapting to new cultures; 5 fix figuring it out by myself; trauma from this pattern -- no one here like me; "The resolution needs to come in community"; Immigrant as metaphor for attachment

11:34 What grabbed you about the Enneagram? Mistyping as 5; Wanting to talk about the Enneagram without talking about the Enneagram

14:51 NOT an Ennea-vangelist; refuting Josh's suggestion that finding universal language is an attachment dynamic

17:10 Attachment vs Social & desire for belonging? Czan's idea: "The Existential Object" for 4, 5, & 9

20:30 Czan's loud 5-fix, not absorbing others' orientation; couldn't be an academic bc need to converse with other scholars

23:56 So why are you a 9, not a 5?; Czan's theory, 9's seeking "existence" in the world, 5's not

28:10 Toggling on and off; "when I'm observing, nothing's going on inside"

30:18 Dissociating -- when things "start to get muffled"; "Existing" or not existing in relationship

36:03 Merging with others, taking on their discomfort; Best thing I could do for my parents as a kid was "be okay" and not need a lot

37:54 Taking on mom's (& others') emotional burden; I'm helping them carry their heavy luggage, not realizing I have a limit to my emotional capacity

39:14 Internal Family Systems (IFS) & Psychedelics

42:01 The metaconversation (!); paradox 9 relational merging & 5 intellectual independence; Czan's 5 fix "vs" Josh's 6 fix 49:24 Josh's object relations theory & the body center

55:44 Ayahuasca and Owl Medicine; not opening to overwhelm or closing myself off, but preening and holding myself as I move through the world

1:00:26 Reflections; 9's virtue of engagement; taking responsibility for washing myself, so I can stay open to be affected by things, to live

1:03:42 Not wasting anger, taking care of "the mud in me," and "using it to grow lotus flowers"; creativity, passion

1:10:16 Attachment to Disconnect

1:13:57 Fitness, getting into my body, trying to "live" the Enneagram and not just cerebralize it


Music by Coma-Media from Pixabay

Coma-Media: https://pixabay.com/users/coma-media-24399569/

Pixabay: https://pixabay.com/


#enneagram #enneagramtypes #enneagram9 #enneagramtype9 #enneagraminterview #9w1